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Talk:Dr. Drakken
Why is Shego not a friend or a love interest? I'm just curious. Mark and Bob have said they got together. So i'm wondering if that holds no value or not? I really don't care either way if Shego is listed under friend or love interest. Just curious for those who do. I also noticed something similar on the Warmonga and Warhok pages. Steve said they both died. Yet, they are not listed as deceased. I would think what the creators and or directors say would hold value? Again, these are little things that are not worth making a big fuss over. Just wondering why this wikia doesn't acknowledge what the creators/director says it's a fact. Maybe it mentions this in the MoS and I missed it. Slicknickshady (talk) 00:03, February 19, 2013 (UTC) We discussed this here http://kimpossible.wikia.com/wiki/Forum:Shego As for what the creative team says… basically, canon –what is seen on-screen– trumps most. Mainly because it is easily available to ALL to see, whereas interviews of creators are not universally visible to all without having to be linked to a source which after all this time is also becoming harder to find as sites are failing and turning up 404. Love Robin (talk) 02:35, February 19, 2013 (UTC) Thoughts dr-fan/mai-lover hhhm dr-oonce-kimposslibe-than-kp-dad&ferainds-made-of-dr-d--kp,s-say-stop-it but-dr-d-reminds-of-someone-form-robotech dr-haes-almost-deefeetd-in-std-the-booine-clones-this-waithout-shego Hmm. Dr Drakken once told Kim what Kim's dad & Friends made (fun of) Dr D. Kim (should have) aid "stop it". But Dr D reminds (me) of someone from Robotech, Dr Hayes, almost defeated in StD. Also the Bonnie Clones without Sehgo (around) Trans by Love Robin (talk) 03:23, March 4, 2013 (UTC) Shego as a love interest? I'm surprised this isn't on here, and the only reason I reframe from adding is because of the message left on Shego's page about adding Dr. Drakken as a love interest. Putting aside the creators did say Shego and Drakken got together, Love Robin says "'' –what is seen on-screen– trumps most.", and if we go by this rule, then it on screen in "Graduation", it was strongly implied Shego and Drakken became romantic with each other. The background song, just happened to be saying "shouting out love" when Drakken looked at Shego, and then his plant thing tied them together. I'm not sure what other canon you would need with that? 09:33, January 22, 2015 (UTC) :As mentioned above, this was discussed here The main issue lays in there is some disagreement as to Shego's facial expression at time of vine-wrapping. As a woman, whenever *I* see that expression it is a case of someone (often me) talking calmly to the guy while backing up looking for a way out and perhaps even to call the police. Add to this that in the very next scene with Drakken, during the credits, Shego is nowhere to be seen. Certainly if the intention was to convey D/S, the VERY LAST SCENE of the series would have her at least in it, if not at the table. :So it is felt Canon did not properly establish Drakken and Shego as in a relationship. Not when the sum total of all their other interactions where both are in their sound minds (no Moodulators) does nothing to build on it. :--Love Robin (talk) 03:33, January 25, 2015 (UTC) ::I read that thread, and that was more discussing about Shego being listed as a friend? The first reply didn't mention anything about a love interest, and the second reply said to that, said they don't see Drakken as a love interest, but they also say that's what the creators were trying to convey at the end? ::I understand if you see it a certain way, but that's hard to prove that's how Shego was viewing Drakken. There is more evidence to support that it was hinting a romantic feeling, rather than a disgusted look. The creators even said Drakken and Shego got together after Graduation, and should that not be taken into account as canon? They are the ones who made the show after all. :: ::There were quite a few parts in Graduation, that hinted Drakken and Shego were beginning to develop romantic feelings. The part where Ron and Shego arrive on Warhawk's spaceship in space, and they meet up with Kim and Drakken, Ron rushed and hugged Kim, while Drakken and Shego made way to hug, but stop awkwardly. ::Graduation would be an exception to Shego's demeanor towards Drakken. While she did not bother to rescue Drakken in season 4 from jail, she did however, go out of her way to save him from space. Graduation is where I think it supports it the best. ::Saying that she wasn't there at the end of Graduation with Drakken means she didn't want anything to do with him, doesn't make sense to me. She was there when he received his award for saving the world. I don't think her not being there means she hates him? ::The Wiki is here to showcase information and facts, and while the creators do in fact, confirm Shego and Drakken as a pairing, that should be consider canon in the show. I'm not trying to say they were in love since the beginning, or they'll have an undying love for each other, but it was strongly implied that there were romantic feelings in the last episode. I'm not even a "shipper" for the pairing, but it's hard to ignore what the episode/creators were trying to convey. 15:40, January 26, 2015 (UTC) :::Love Robin, I understand that Shego and Drakken's romantic relationship was almost never hinted at, and when it was it was mostly due to one of them not being themselves. But, as Ripto had said, the pairing has been confirmed by the creators themselves. Even with following what you said about what is on screen counts, we can see clearly at the end of Graduation that the two share some sort of affection towards one another. :::You said that Shego's expression was one of disgust, but there is absolutely no evidence or proof to support your statement. If that expression of her's reminds you of disgust, wouldn't that mean Drakken was disgusted as well? Knowing Shego's character, she would have destroyed the flower-vine thing and kick Drakken's butt into the next century, but as you can clearly see she did not. She seemed to be "okay" with the situation, and so did Drakken. :::All I want is for you to think about what Ripto and I have said. I know that I may not change your perspective on the whole topic, but at least I would like you to think about it. You can see that the show itself and the creators give us evidence that Drakken and Shego are a pairing, I just want you to see that. (DarkShine3030 (talk) 16:16, January 27, 2015 (UTC)) ::::Yeah, Graduation is pretty much the only episode that hints towards the pairing. Aside from the creators themselves after the show ended. I think trying to interpret something like Shego being disgusted or something, is a little too hard to prove. If she ripped off the plant, and walked off(and knowing Shego, she is not afraid to speak her mind, or throw someone out of her way if they are bothering her), then yes I can see that. But Shego didn't do anything of that. ::::I mean, it's not like we have to start a ticker-tat parade over the fact Shego and Drakken were made a pairing by the creators, but some recognition over that they were, and some subtle hints in Graduation would be canon supported, and informative. 22:11, January 27, 2015 (UTC) :::::Since they were in front of the Assembled United Nations receiving awards and recognition—and quite possibly being televised, tho that is conjecture—yes, Shego could very easily have held back her temper at the moment of vine-wrap. She was conspicuously missing from "her bae's" side in the very final scene of the series. Even DNA had Monkey Fist's statue present, so why would Shego be absent if they were indeed dating. As for Drakken displaying any disgust, welp, many a guy can be quite interested in a pretty gal and it not be reciprocated. Also in Graduation, after Drakken was abducted, Shego goes directly to Kim "hoping she'd do her save the world thing". She does not even ''mention Drakken, and when asked his whereabouts simply repeated the 'point to the sky' gesture. :::::Also, as mentioned, it is getting harder and harder to find where the creators stated that D/S was a thing. Older sites are coming up 404. I think the last place it was mentioned was on a live RS.net interview with Schooley, but that thread has gone poof with, last I heard, an edited compilation of the interview with several sections missing. I was at that interview, and I know the edited compilation is incomplete and therefore is suspect as to what it now says vs original content. In other words, manipulated. As a manipulated/compiled/condensed quote of a quote of a quote, its authority is no longer valid here. :::::The vine-wrap may be mentioned in the appropriate Out-of-Universe areas such as Notes and Behind the Scenes (episode articles), but INFOBOXES are deemed as being Very Weighty. Visitors to the wiki seeking answers to questions may stop at infobox information, only delving deeper if they cannot find their answers there. This is something with requires OUT OF UNIVERSE "this may have indicated a start of a relationship", but it fails as IN-UNIVERSE canonicity. --Love Robin (talk) 07:44, January 28, 2015 (UTC) Love Robin, okay I understand where you're getting this all from. Look, we all know Shego's character, she's not afraid to lash out in front of a crowd of people. She fought Kim at a restaurant and didn't care in the "So the Drama" movie. She doesn't care whether she's in front of a crowd of people or not, she's not afraid to speak her mind. We all know she would have destroyed Drakken right there and then, in front of everybody, but she DIDN'T. You are just throwing "information" out to support your statement, most of which has little to no proof whatsoever. I'm a female as well, I have you know, and when "I" see that expression, it means she feels slightly awkward, yet she's OKAY with it. You're giving out your biased opinion, and not the full picture. We know that they've had a few moments throughout "Graduation". She and Drakken were about to HUG each other (and Shego didn't appear DISGUSTED) but stopped awkwardly. Whenever I see that, I can clearly see Shego harboring some affection towards the evil genius. Remember when Warmonga asked Shego why she was "threatened" (by her terms meaning JEALOUS) when she was around, Shego simply stated that Warmonga was like nine feet tall. When Kim asked Shego if there was seriously nothing between her and Drakken, she angrily and DEFENSIVELY said "nothing". Perhaps her disappearance from the ending scene was indicating that she had turned over a new leaf. That DOES NOT mean she wasn't there because of Drakken. Perhaps they would remain partners, but they'd fight crime instead. Her disappearance from the ending scene shows no proof of her leaving Drakken. For all we know she could have been at the spa or something. You know this is true, however, you continue to throw random "facts" out to make us believe your statement. As I've said before, your statements have little to no proof to support them. Once you find that proof, then I will believe you. Since you clearly do not give out "reasonable evidence", your case is already in pieces. (DarkShine3030 (talk) 12:31, January 28, 2015 (UTC)) :The same thing about their awkwardness could be stated for early Kim/Ron. The difference being that the show explicitly shows Kim & Ron finally as a couple. With Drakken/Shego it is at best an implicit relationship. Therefore it is worthy OOU information, it is not In-universe and has no place in infoboxes or main-context. :Consider, if we are NOT allowing "Jim & Tim" to be presented as "James & Timothy" based upon what is expressly stated in canon against what the names "normally imply", then D/S likewise fails canonicity. :Also, Shego is smart enough to not baldly react when something will impact her negatively. If Kim can cow her with a threat to blog about Shego's history as a hero, Shego can curb her baser impulses in front of a body lauding her as a hero instead of a villain—which means enough to her she even bothered to show up for. --Love Robin (talk) 23:31, January 28, 2015 (UTC) ::So you're saying Shego just stood there, being uncomfortable, because she was in front of people? You do know the crowd were all villains right? And even if there was, why would that stop her from "being herself" and just breaking everything to get out. She already wanted by the police in multiple counties, and gets right up to security cameras to disable them, showing her face. Pretty much everyone knows her character. If there was a scene exactly like this before in the series to compare, then we would have something to go off on. But, assuming that she was uncomfortable, without any real proof, is just a theory. Why would the creators make the song switch the "love lyrics" right as Shego and Drakken got wrapped up with a flower, only for it to be fake. It's a cartoon after all, they wouldn't do that, unless there was something else that happened (like Shego not smiling, Shego breaking free, Shego saying "what are you doing?"). ::Saying that its common for men to be interested in a pretty girl and have it not be reciprocated is it a little bit curt. Even if we use that formula, it still can't really be applied, as if we do apply it, it will be out of theory, and not out of what actually happened. What happened is, Drakken looked over at Shego who was smiling, while being awarded for saving the world, and his plant grabbed them, and tied them together while forming at flower, with them both smiling at each other. To assume, that Shego was disgusted, is it a blunt theory. My theory (and many other people), is that it was hinting romantic feelings in each other. So what exactly do we do with theories? Well, we take them, and use evidence we find to support or disclaim it. ::We'll name some facts down first. ::*What happened? ::**Drakken looked at Shego while being awarded and she was smiling at him. Drakken's plant tied them together, while they were smiling at each other at the act. ::*What was the mood of the song playing? ::**The song was peppy, and cheerful, and at the scene with Drakken and Shego, it just happened to be at the part saying "and shouting out love!". ::Those are the facts that happened. It's how we interpret them. And even with interpretation, we need logical explanation reasoning's for it. It would be silly to say "Oh Drakken and Shego are getting married". Because, there is no evidence to support that statement. The statement, "Drakken and Shego are being hinted towards a romantic" would be a supported statement. There is tangible proof to go off of to support that. There were smiling at each other. Shego smiling at him, before he smiled at her. (That does not seem like someone who is uncomfortable would be doing). The were "love lyrics" playing, as they looked at each other. The plant on Drakken, tied them together closely, while they made no move to correct themselves. ::The statement, "Shego is disgusted", does not have much to go off of. And without anything to back it up, it's considered an opinion. You can't just assume that Shego was disgusted. Not even saying "as a female, she didn't know what to do". Because that would be like me, taking the previous, statement, "Drakken and Shego are getting married", and jumping to a conclusion on it, saying that is what will happen. It's me saying, "I've been married before, so whenever I see that look Shego gave Drakken, that means they'll get married". That seems a little silly doesn't it? It does indeed, because neither of them have solid proof to support it, outside of personal experience. And personal experience, can't be applied to someone else's life. Especially, in a television show. ::Moving on, when Shego went and sought Kim for help, and pointed towards the sky without mentioning Drakken is a little picky. She went to find help for him and well being of the world. Is that why Shego made way to hug Drakken when they finally met up on the spaceship? Just because she did not mention his name, is not evidence enough to say she doesn't care for him. (Romantically or not). ::Putting the information of Drakken and Shego being hinted at a romantic relationship in the notes and behind the scenes of an episode page is a good start. There isn't a need to start a whole shipping page for them, but some recognition. In time, if more people comment on this topic, I think we will have to start giving it more attention. Since even though it wasn't a "relationship", it still did hint towards the feelings. I'm not sure what you mean by "fails as IN-UNIVERSE canonicity"? It's not like they broke up or something? ::The names of Jim and Tim aren't very similar to this situation. The reason for that, is because "James and Timothy" were never stated in the series. That's why they are called "Jim and Tim". ::Also, I would like to point out, when you said Shego was not present with Drakken at the ending scene. Bonnie was not present either with Junior, so if we use the same recipe as you did for Drakken and Shego, then that would mean Bonnie ran out on Junior. Would that be correct? 01:35, January 29, 2015 (UTC) :::Personally I'd be thrilled with Bonnie no longer with SSJ, and in fact do personally cling to that scene as making suspect the Bonnie/Junior connection. However, canon explicitly showed them as a couple, with no need for interpretations. Not only did they have an entire episode devoted to bringing the together, but subsequent appearances and dialog firmed their connection. Thus for them "love interest" is suitable for the infobox. :::The decision was made that in-universe D/S is not canonical. As such, mention of the intention of them as a couple is not suitable for In-universe Content areas and infoboxes, only for out-of-universe Notes and Behind the Scenes sections. --Love Robin (talk) 10:32, January 29, 2015 (UTC) Bonnie and SSJ's relationship has nothing to do with this topic, it was only used as an example to support our statement. Would you care to explain why Shego and Drakken's relationship is not suitable for In-Unverse Content? What you said made little to no sense to me. How can't their relationship be suitable to canon in the KP series? Honestly, here you are again throwing your "facts" at us with no proof to support them. Give me proof to prove why Drakken and Shego are not meant to be in a relationship, or even hold feelings to each other, and I'll believe you. However, since all you've given me were just your biased views and nothing else, I find your statement to be already useless to have to go against, because we've already discussed and proved your statement to be wrong. All I ask now is to provide evidence to your statements, not assumptions. (DarkShine3030 (talk) 21:20, January 29, 2015 (UTC)) :I'm sorry, are you under the impression that this was a decision made solely by me? Because it was not. --Love Robin (talk) 12:45, January 30, 2015 (UTC) Have I said that. No, I haven't. I don't recall ever saying or even hinting at this decision being made by you only. Anyway, that has nothing to do with what we are talking about. You know that you are already losing this argument, yet you continue to toss in things that either have nothing to do with our topic, or that cannot be proven. I'm sorry if I'm sound harsh or rude, but I'm just pointing out exactly what you are doing. You insist on continuing this argument when you've already realised that we have evidence against any claim or assumption you put in this argument. (DarkShine3030 (talk) 13:55, January 30, 2015 (UTC)) ::I'm not losing anything. Because the decision has been made a long time ago. I've tried explaining why, you wish to continue to contest it. I no longer need to explain to you why *I* might feel a certain why. I only need to uphold the decision. --Love Robin (talk) 09:41, January 31, 2015 (UTC) Alright then, I wasn't stopping you from explaining. You have the right to feel the way you feel, and we have the right to give evidence to support the truth. You can explain how you feel, I'm not stopping you. (DarkShine3030 (talk) 13:50, January 31, 2015 (UTC)) I know what Bob Schooley said at the time. Unfortunately, I don't have the actual text. It was deleted pretty quickly (he himself didn't remove it). Basically, he said he thought the flower hug was just a way to celebrate their victory. He also said that he wasn't sure what they'd do if there were more episodes. --Erased Paper (talk) 23:43, February 4, 2015 (UTC) ::I believe I recall something about that, but he ended up making another comment about the ordeal at a later point in time, saying they got together of the sorts. So it's basically whatever you want to take into account first, or ignore both of them. This is sort of a small error all together. And it makes it complicated when you're convinced it's true, when there are different accounts, and proof of what. It's been this way for so long, so it's natural to think it's correct, but a lot of times you end up walking with your shoes untied. --Ripto22475 (talk) 03:34, February 18, 2015 (UTC) So we do not present it as Canon. It is not to be in Infoboxes—which a lot of people use for the briefest of stops for info—nor in in-universe content areas. It may be mentioned in real world content areas such as Notes (not Trivia, which is In-universe) and Behind the Scenes. --Love Robin (talk) 07:14, February 19, 2015 (UTC) HI Dr. Drakken mad scientist who wants to take over the world and has his partner in Crime shego i have been looking for you and your princess is looking for you thats me and i to ma scientist as well!!